SKCC Weekend Sprints

Moderators: W5ALT, AC2C

Postby K4VD » Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:46 pm

VE3LXL wrote:I would suggest changing one thing - I think that requiring participants to submit their scores by the next Friday evening is just not enough time. At a minimum I think they should have at least until the next Sunday evening, and perhaps even more time.


I will apply this suggestion to the Wednesday evening SKS too.
73,
Kev, K4VD
SKCC 605
FISTS 11712 CC 1798
http://k4vd.net/
K4VD
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Shawsville, VA

Postby NT9K » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:10 pm

The sliding slot:

Submit the best totals that you have from a continous 4 hour period in your log. So, if I worked 5 qso's the first night, then the next day worked 12 from say 0800-1200z, then 6 from 1200z til the end at 2359z. I would submit 12 as being my best slot from 0800-1200z in my log.

I was looking for a way to allow people to get on anytime during a 24 hour weekend with daytime hours. Thier daytime hours would be different in the UK versus California. Or maybe they had Church or wanted to watch Nascar or something. So, I can get on at 0000z and work straight though if I want or only work in the mornings. Anytime, this ads flexibility to aid against poor propagation too.

This would keep more people on the air. If you had a real good 4 hour period then it might persuade you to slow down and work the slower ops for the rest of the day. This is where the 24 hour total catagory would come in.

I really didn't want to make it difficult. But I was also looking for a way to be able to include the DX too. Do you think it would be better to nuke the 4 hour window and do it continous? That may get too competitive and or intimidating to the newer ops?

Thank you for bringing this up. Lets talk more about it pse.
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby W2LJ » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:55 pm

NT9K wrote:The sliding slot:

I really didn't want to make it difficult. But I was also looking for a way to be able to include the DX too. Do you think it would be better to nuke the 4 hour window and do it continous? That may get too competitive and or intimidating to the newer ops?


No, I think that's an excellent concept! The NAQCC did the same sort of thing back when they used to offer a staggered sprint in order to make it fair for West Coast folks to join in on the fun. The Sprint would last for 4 hours; but you submitted your score for your best two hour period. Anything outside that window was not reported. I think that's what had me confused.

Encouraging folks to stay on is a good thing. Reporting both your "24 hour score" and your window score might get confusing, though. I'd be tempted to have folks just submit their "best" window score.

As far as times for log/score submission goes, both the NAQCC and Flying Pigs give a full week. While that's not necessarily the rule, I think it's a good formula to follow.
73 de Larry W2LJ
SKCC #49

QRP - When you care to use the very least!
W2LJ
Member
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:03 am
Location: South Plainfield, NJ

SKCC QSO Party

Postby k9wzb » Fri Feb 02, 2007 11:55 pm

A qso party would be great for a quarterly event that would give the SKCC group plenty of activities to keep the goal of getting activity on the band.

I think we do need to keep the contest to a weekend event because of the many of stations that may work during the week and we would not want to leave them out. If you want to run something during the week it could be a retired group qso party!

My suggestion would be to have two 10 hour sessions on a scheduled weekend. 14:00 utc to 00:00 UTC each day of a weekend.

Scoring QSO Points

3 for qsos with SKCC
1 with non-SKCC station
Multlipliers 2 points for each new state.

Exchange call, rst, state, SKCC, and date first joined SKCC.

Bonus point ideas
If you give any bonus to a centurion call you only penallize the station with the centurion call. He gives out points but doesn't receive any for it.

Other bonus points might be for different bands that are not often used 10, 12, 15, 17,30, meters

Points for sending could be given but this would be very subjective, tlhe (ears of the beholder)

What ever we come up with it needs to be simple and that anyone could join in in a matter of a few minutes figuring out what the protocal is.....

Garry K9WZB
k9wzb
Member
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 2:14 pm

Postby VE3LXL » Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:42 pm

NT9K wrote:Good suggestion Greg, I changed it to the following Sunday evening following the event. It could be longer, but the timely posting of the results should be considered too. Think 7 days is enough time?


Yes, I think that should be enough.
VE3LXL
Member
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:39 am
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

SKCC QSO party.

Postby k8jd » Sat Feb 10, 2007 4:59 pm

]I like the idea of another event. It seemed like after the January K1Y ended someone pulled the plug and SKCC activity dropped to near nil!!
The proposed activity should spark more operators to get on the air.[/b]
73 from K8JD, SKCC 1395, Centurion 18, Tribune 12, Band Endorsements; 160, 80, 60, 40, 30M, 20, 17, and 10M

Ham radio is real Radio, CW is real Hamming!
k8jd
Member
 
Posts: 380
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:15 pm
Location: Commerce, MI

Postby NT9K » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:36 pm

I renamed this post and edited out my extranious comments.

There are alot of good event ideas going around and many could be incorporated into the weekend sprint themes. Some recent ones are:

LTA SKCC key number chase.
QRP sprint.
Age sprint.
Bug sprint.
New member sprint.
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby K4VD » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:22 pm

Personally, I like the weekend QRP sprint. We have a lot of members that are dedicated QRP operators and some such as myself that are part time enthusiasts looking for an excuse to crank the power down.

Kev K4VD
73,
Kev, K4VD
SKCC 605
FISTS 11712 CC 1798
http://k4vd.net/
K4VD
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Shawsville, VA

Postby NT9K » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:10 pm

Yesterday, the Weekend Sprints were approved. Starting this Sunday March 11th, at 0000z thru 2359z the first Monthly Weekend Sprint will happen. The rules have been posted from this thread to the Yahoo files section and to my website at http://www.nt9k.com/skcc.htm

With such short notice, the first sprint might be ugly with low turnout. That's ok, and will make it easier on me getting the feel of administering the event. Some of the shortcomings are likely to be:
No Theme for the first sprint. (Use the same exchange as the regular sprint)
No web entry form for submissions. (I may have this done in time)
No awards/prizes. (Not sure what to do here)

There are still some discussions going on with the SKCC founders about changing SKN to this event. Expect rule changes. I already think we need to give a bonus for DX contacts. Maybe that could just be another theme?

Except for K1Y/4, this is the first time that I have ever tried to run an event and I hope that I don't mess it up. If you can help in any way, please do. Even with the short notice, there is no reason not to give this event a try. I hope everyone has fun with it.
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby K4VD » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:42 pm

Bill:

What kind of graphics programs do you have available? I created the SKS certificate in Corel Draw X3 but might be able to save it in a format you can modify.

Try contacting Same KB3DNZ <KB3EDNZ@p1s.com>. He has that membership certificate that it created online. Maybe someone can help modify that for certificates.

Another person that works on certificates is Larry W2LJ <Makos327@att.net>. He might have some ideas for you.

Kev
73,
Kev, K4VD
SKCC 605
FISTS 11712 CC 1798
http://k4vd.net/
K4VD
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Shawsville, VA

Postby NT9K » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:08 pm

Thanks Kev, I'll install Corel Draw X3 and give it a try. I'd really like to find out more about your php form processor script for submissions. Was that a free script you found? I looked at your source html for the form this morning.

I normally use Paint shop pro or Photoshop but since my hard drive crash, don't have any graphics software loaded yet. I was going this morning to look into the costs for an engraved plaque. That may be out of reach but there's a place on my way. The SKCC coffee cup was a good idea for a prize.

I was thinking since the lead time is so short a prize might draw a few more ops to the event. Maybe it was the way I announced it, trying to get people to leave comments here but I was kind of disappointed at the lack of chatter about the event. I didn't want to clog up yahoo but I didn't want to alienate the event either. I worry too much. hi
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby K4VD » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:34 pm

Once you made the decision to move forward, advertise it daily at least on the reflector so people have a chance to see it. Ask Frank to set up a reminder in the Yahoo calendar.

I wrote the form myself in php. It is actually pretty simple. I'll dig up the php code and send you copies. You'll have to make some changes of course but it should work OK otherwise.
73,
Kev, K4VD
SKCC 605
FISTS 11712 CC 1798
http://k4vd.net/
K4VD
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Shawsville, VA

Postby NT9K » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:08 pm

I have it saved Kev, you can delete the code if you want. Thanks, I might use it just to try php for a change. Does your form get alot of spam abuse? Since I have the memberlist stored on my server, I considered doing a call and skcc number lookup for verification against the bots. Maybe we could use this scheme for the K1Y calandar too. (subject for another thread)

The trip to the trophy store didn't pan out very well. They had a few things but nothing that seemed right. I may investigate a callsign hat or maybe a batch of SKCC cheapqsl cards? I'm not rich, but I'd like to do something more than wallpaper. Certificates might have to be enough until we get rolling. Thanks again for the help, Bill
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby K4VD » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:36 pm

I get two or three emails from it each day. They are not spam. Someone just hitting ASGDSJFASD on their keyboard and pressing the send button. I think they are just trying it out so it is no bother to me.

If spam does become a problem, I'll do more to protect it. I now use Captcha for comments in my Gallery and that seems to help a lot so I might implement it for the SKS Entry Form eventually.

Most people will join in for the fun, not for the prize. I, like many others, know I'm going to join and expect not to win. If I remember right, I produced a certificate for all participants in the inaugural sprint.
73,
Kev, K4VD
SKCC 605
FISTS 11712 CC 1798
http://k4vd.net/
K4VD
Member
 
Posts: 166
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:02 am
Location: Shawsville, VA

Postby nn8b » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:57 am

Samuel F. B. Morse was born 27 April 1791.

We could make the April weekend sprint something to do with S. F. B. Morse.
73,
Don, NN8B
SKCC 36T
nn8b
Moderator
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:17 am
Location: Guilford Lake, Ohio, EN90nt

Postby nn8b » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:07 am

Bill,

March is St. Patrick's Day.
What kind of Irish theme could we think up?

Extra points for working someone of Irish decent.
73,
Don, NN8B
SKCC 36T
nn8b
Moderator
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:17 am
Location: Guilford Lake, Ohio, EN90nt

Postby NT9K » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:49 am

Sam marked up the rules in html and posted them on the main SKCC website. I've asked Frank to add the event to the calandar. As for St. Patrick's Day. The only thing I can think of is maybe collecting suffixes that spell out st patricks day. Maybe for those who do, they claim a bonus. Any better ideas? Maybe the first sprint should follow the traditional style?

Working out the themes looks like a fun way for members to get involved. I hope more people will join in.
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby NT9K » Fri Mar 09, 2007 2:10 pm

The entry form is online and working, thanks to Kevin K4VD. I used parts of his submission form since everyone is used to the layout. I did rewrite it in perl and added some logging and spam protection. Feel free to test the form, I'll delete the tests before the event. http://www.nt9k.com/skcc.htm

It was brought to my attention that the name "sprint" may not be entirely appropriate for this type of an event. In a sprint, ops usually change frequencies after each contact. I know its our event and we can call it what we want, but I was just curious what others think about this. At one time this event was titled SKCC QSO Party, but it seemed that traditional qso parties are yearly or quarterly events. Does it even matter?
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby KJ7BS » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:37 pm

I had a good time with the Weekend Sprint. Conditions were a little difficult, but I managed 19 QSOs in 14 states and 6 Centurions for 326 points.

When I posted my results using the form, I left out 2 QSOs I thought were non sprint QSOs. Upon reviewing my log, those two count. I will submit another entry?
Mark Saunders, KJ7BS
Glendale, AZ
Editor, The SKCC Centurion
SKCC 2240 C56
KJ7BS
Moderator
 
Posts: 39
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:19 pm
Location: Glendale, AZ - DM33vo

Postby N5BO » Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:19 pm

It was brought to my attention that the name "sprint" may not be entirely appropriate for this type of an event. In a sprint, ops usually change frequencies after each contact. I know its our event and we can call it what we want, but I was just curious what others think about this. At one time this event was titled SKCC QSO Party, but it seemed that traditional qso parties are yearly or quarterly events. Does it even matter?


I think sprint is fine for short duration events like the monthly one that happens on Tuesdays. It is true that some sprints have the QSY rule, but there are others that do not, i.e. the fall/spring VHF/UHF sprints. One suggestion I have is to maybe change the name of this event since it's a 24hr event and not a short "sprint".

Like another member mentioned in the yahoo group, I think spacing events out during the month might me better, and maybe lead to more participants.

I was leaning towards maybe a few more suggestions, but it's really hard to comment on certain things after only one event like this...personally I think it will take a few to fine tune it! I will suggest more as I gather my thoughts after a long work day.
N5BO
Member
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:22 pm

Weekend Sprint Results Posted

Postby NT9K » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:26 pm

I have posted all the results that I have received up to now. Please
remember the results will not be final until 0000z March 18th. We
extended the entry deadline for a full week. If you see any errors,
please contact me off list. Here's the link:
http://www.nt9k.com/skcc/WeekendSprintResults.html
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby NT9K » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:42 pm

I'd like to propose a rule change based on members comments via email to me in their sprint entries. I want to add a final score multiplier for those who choose to operate QRP. What should the multiplier be? 2x 3x or more? If we could decide on a value, and give it a try. If it doesn't make it competitive, we can change it. What do you think?

There sure are some good ideas floating around, I'm overwhelmed by all the possibilities. From the feedback I've read, nobody is balking at having another weekend sprint this month to get us on track for the 4th Sunday Change.
73, Bill - NT9K
SKCC #1926c69t9was8hofdxq2dxc1
http://www.nt9k.com
NT9K
Member
 
Posts: 330
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Florida, USA

Postby af2z » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:59 pm

NT9K wrote:I'd like to propose a rule change based on members comments via email to me in their sprint entries. I want to add a final score multiplier for those who choose to operate QRP. What should the multiplier be? 2x 3x or more? If we could decide on a value, and give it a try. If it doesn't make it competitive, we can change it. What do you think?




Another way you could do it: just use the original scoring formula but calculate a QRP ranking based on points-per-watt, i.e., total points divided by power output. That seems like a smoother way to fine tune the scoring than using a multiplier.

73,
Drew
af2z
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:24 pm

Postby nn8b » Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:30 pm

By using the dB gain in power as the determining factor for scoring, I made the following formulas in Excel:
100 watts is the figured as the normal power used, power levels under 100 watts will increase in points and power levels over 100 watts will decrease in points.

((20x10)+(+20+25))/(dB)x50
I used the x50 to obtain the 245 score at 100 watts. This is the same as if no wattage factor were used.

dB = 10*((log10(100/.001))) with .001w (1 milliWatt) as the base.
The 100 will change (in the formula) depending on the wattage used.

Scores were based on a station having the following date:
Sta Wrkd SPC Cent Club Watts Normal Score
20 10 20 25 100 245

Data Table
Factor Watts Score dB (base 1mW)
2.498 0.1 612 20
1.849 0.5 453 26.98
1.665 1 408 30
1.351 5 331 36.98
1.159 20 284 43.01
1.061 50 260 46.98
1.000 100 245 50
0.943 200 231 53.01
0.873 500 214 56.98
0.833 1000 204 60
0.810 1500 198 61.76

Using the above data for the adjusted score, the factor in the first column can be derived (50dB/dB(of power)). Simply by multiplying the normal score by this factor the identical score can be had, thus negating the need for a spreadsheet to do the calculations.

Presumptions:
100W is the average power used by most people.
Using less power will make it harder to make contacts.
No consideration is made of the receiving station when copying QRP signals.

The above is just an exercise to satisfy my own curiosity about how to implement a sliding scale for power in a contest. I hope it sheds some light on scoring QRP stations.

Note: I can't get the table to format correctly. All the numbers are there but just run together.
_________________
73,
Don, NN8B
SKCC 36T
nn8b
Moderator
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:17 am
Location: Guilford Lake, Ohio, EN90nt

Postby af2z » Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:44 pm

nn8b wrote:By using the dB gain in power as the determining factor for scoring, I made the following formulas in Excel:
100 watts is the figured as the normal power used, power levels under 100 watts will increase in points and power levels over 100 watts will decrease in points.


_________________


That's interesting. Kevin was just mentioning this idea in the Yahoo group.
Applied to the current sprint results it really doesn't change the standings much though, does it. Not as much as I would have thought.

73,
Drew
af2z
Member
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:24 pm

PreviousNext

Return to New Proposals

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest